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Post subject: Domain of the Golden Dragon
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:57 pm
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MattWheeler
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 43
Location: New York, NY
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While I was home for Thanksgiving I found this old certificate in a box of my grandfather's stuff. Thought y'all would like the sea monster and mermaids theme of it.
I also included a scan of the back, which I'm pretty puzzled over. It's not like any code I'm familiar with... any ideas?
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_________________
Pure science is always neutral. Always perfect. It’s the ambitions of men that muck it up.
-John Wheeler, 6/13/66
RainbowOfDeath.com
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Post subject:
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:13 pm
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B_Tyler_B
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 37
Location: mayfield kentukcy
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wow thats so totaly cool matt. its gotta be real real old huh?
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_________________
my band > monster crue
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Post subject:
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Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:54 pm
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susan_B
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 5
Location: maine
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It is very interesting to say the least, I have no idea what the notes could be.
Tyler, I just noticed that it looks like you and I have the same last name. 
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Post subject:
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:42 pm
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MattWheeler
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 43
Location: New York, NY
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It's about 40 years old, Tyler. I still have no idea what it means, and it's driving me crazy. (I'm sure Derek can attest to this.)
If you guys know anybody who could help me out with this, I'd sure appreciate it. Thanks.
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_________________
Pure science is always neutral. Always perfect. It’s the ambitions of men that muck it up.
-John Wheeler, 6/13/66
RainbowOfDeath.com
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Post subject:
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:30 pm
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degravity
Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 23
Location: New Orleans, LA AKA New Atlantis
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Beautiful imagery and cool code! Bt the certificate itself isn't that mysterious. For a long time it was uncommon for people to cross the "180th parallel" or the International Date Line (running vertically through the Pacific Ocean). So there was often a big ceremony for the crossing, as was also the case with crossing the Equator, the thirteenth parallel, and the Straights of Gibraltar. Its odd that its not filled out though with the date and exact coordinates of the crossing.
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Post subject:
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:49 pm
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Derek
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 186
Location: NYC
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Oh, that 180th parallel! Heh, that's pretty cool, thanks for the info and welcome, degravity. 
I hadn't really noticed the blank lines until you mentioned it, that is kinda weird. From what Matt's told me lately (when I see him, anyway) about his family, sounds like that's probably not the oddest thing in that box...
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_________________
DEREK: This is a great meeting and all, but who's ready for a snack break?
MATT: I'm good. I actually learned to photosynthesize freshman year so I'd have more time to study.
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Post subject:
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:24 am
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Phaetor
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 47
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I don't know how much I can help, I tend to be bad at these kinds of things, but I have some friends that might be able to help. Is this thing private in any way, or can I share it with them?
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Post subject:
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:16 am
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WolfHawk
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 22
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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I would be happy to help you out if I can. Let me know.
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_________________
Having abandoned my search for the truth I am now looking for a good fantasy.
I think I am therefore I am I think.
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Post subject:
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:00 am
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MattWheeler
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 43
Location: New York, NY
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Phaetor: yes please, share away. Thanks very much, guys.
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_________________
Pure science is always neutral. Always perfect. It’s the ambitions of men that muck it up.
-John Wheeler, 6/13/66
RainbowOfDeath.com
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Post subject:
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:06 pm
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Rowan
Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 9
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I'm never very good at solving actual codes and mysterious messages, although I'm usually very good at articulating how they should (or shouldn't) work, which often times sparks an idea for the people who are good at solving stuff like this.
So first up, transcription of the code. As the writing is really faint in the picture, can you verify that this is what it actually says Matt?
| Code: | 8 - 11 - 6 - 6 - 8 - 4 - 6 - 7 - 5 - 8
7K^ 4P> 0Ev 1N> 1R^ 4S<
0R> 7Cv 4I> 3H^ 9B^ 9T<
3Sv 0D< 4D^ 6K> 3Rv 0Dv
6Ev 2L< 9E> 5E< 1P^ 4N<
4I> 5Sv 3Hv 8Sv 2A< 2H^
7Uv 0Rv 0D< 4S< 8S< 4L<
2H< |
Now, how to go about solving this. It would be immesenly helpful if we could figure out who the code was for. Is this something that John Sr. wrote down for himself? Or was it meant for someone else (like Grace)?
If this code was meant just for himself, it could be very difficult to solve because there are no real references as to what type of code this is or even the information contained within it. Private codes can be utterly obscure since the only person that has to know the method is the one creating it in the first place.
However, if this was a code meant for another person, a ton of possibilities open up. First, did the recipient know of this code beforehand? You can create more complex codes if both parties know what the key is. However, if this is something that is unsolicited, it would need to be rather simple in its method otherwise the code might not be broken. To counter the simplification however, the code could become personal. That is, even if an outsider discovered the method, they still wouldn't be able to solve the code if it was based upon only knowledge that the sender and receiver knew about. (I don't know if any of you guys watch Prison Break but the whole 'Rainbow Room' message is an example of that)>
One other possibility: that this isnt the entire code. To secure simple, non-personal codes, you can break them up into smaller pieces, hoping that only the intended recipient will see all the pieces. (Again, in Prison Break, you can see this in Michael's messages to Sarah.)
Unfortunately, I'm not really sure how we are going to know what type of situation this is until we solve it, unless Matt can maybe deduce some things for us. Was this certificate mailed specifically back to Grace? Was it shipped back as part of the rest of the papers after his death in 1967? Are there any other papers with markings like this one? Did John and Grace ever communicate through code? Did they share the same favorite book or song? Could this have been meant for John Jr and if so, what sort of personalization would they share?
Sorry if this seems over analytical, but I'm completely rubbish in dealing with codes/puzzles/ciphers that are in a vacuum. Just dealing with the small facts that I do have now, I would have to lean towards this being some sort of book cipher with the letter being a starting point on the page, and then counting up/down/left/right from that position (which of course completely ignores what to do with the numbers at the top). And you'd still have to determine what 'book' it was based on. If it's based on the certificate itself, we'd definitely need a bigger scan. However, it could just as easily be based upon John's journal or some other 'book' that he had with him at the time.
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_________________
She understands. She doesn't comprehend.
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Post subject:
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:50 pm
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MattWheeler
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 43
Location: New York, NY
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I just updated my What I've Learned section with a few new entries and added some better pics of the certificate (click for larger pics):
Text on the front.
String of numbers on back.
Block of code on back.
Rowan: Thank you for taking the time to help, and for being so thorough. Unfortunately, I don't know the answers to most of your questions.
| Quote: | | Is this something that John Sr. wrote down for himself? Or was it meant for someone else (like Grace)? |
I really don't know at this point, it was just in the box with a bunch of other materials. I would guess it'd be for someone else, though, I'm not sure why he'd write something in code for himself.
| Quote: | | One other possibility: that this isnt the entire code. |
That is possible. I haven't seen another piece of writing that looks like it goes with this one, though.
| Quote: | | Did John and Grace ever communicate through code? Did they share the same favorite book or song? Could this have been meant for John Jr and if so, what sort of personalization would they share? |
These things are all possible, but I really have no way of knowing. My grandmother didn't ever really talk much about my grandfather's time in SEA when I was growing up. I know they both liked Hank Williams a lot, but I'm not sure if that would mean anything or not.
Sorry I can't be of more help in answering your questions. I appreciate you all taking a look at this for me, though.
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_________________
Pure science is always neutral. Always perfect. It’s the ambitions of men that muck it up.
-John Wheeler, 6/13/66
RainbowOfDeath.com
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Post subject:
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:35 pm
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Phaetor
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 47
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Did anyone else find the empty blank spaces surprising? I would have figured it would have been filled out.
Edit: Nevermind, several people noticed.
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Post subject:
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:00 am
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Hi Matt, I think I figured out the secret code. It's using the list of sea creatures from the certificate as a kind of grid. If you line them up and assign them numbers 0 - 9, the triads in the code (7K^) tell you what row in the grid to use, the letter to use, and a direction to offset by one space.
I don't know if that makes sense, but I think I got a message from it.
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Post subject:
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:01 am
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MattWheeler
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 43
Location: New York, NY
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Fantastic! What is the message?
ETA: Nevermind, I see you've emailed it to me, thanks. I've actually been checking D's forum more than my email lately. The message is:
"the tin man has disappeared into the rainbow"
I'm not sure what this means. I imagine the "rainbow" part is probably referring to Project Rainbow, but I don't know who "the tin man" is. I'll keep digging, maybe there's something in the journal or other stuff that I missed.
Thanks very much for your help, y'all. I will keep you posted.
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_________________
Pure science is always neutral. Always perfect. It’s the ambitions of men that muck it up.
-John Wheeler, 6/13/66
RainbowOfDeath.com
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Post subject:
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:31 am
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enaxor
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 17
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